Geroglifici egizi: mi manca un simbolo

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  • #109346
    lorenzo.pantieri
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      Carissimi, questo è uno dei quesiti più “particolari” che ho mai posto sul forum.

      Sto usando con il pacchetto hieroglf. Non richiede installazioni di font, e i geroglifici sono disponibili con un semplice comando. Molto bene, fin qui. Vorrei riprodurre la tabella che c’è su Wiki:

      https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geroglifici_egizi

      Solo, non trovo un geroglifico. Si tratta del simbolo “kh”, “ventre e coda di un animale”. Il simbolo si trova nella tabella 1 di questo documento (in corrispondenza con il codice X):

      http://www.guit.sssup.it/downloads/hierotex1.pdf

      Mi sembra davvero strano: i geroglifici mostrati da Wiki sono quelli fondamentali, e il pacchetto hieroglf l’ha scritto Wilson, una garanzia.

      Possibile che ne manchi proprio uno?

      Mi aiutate?

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      • #109347
        lorenzo.pantieri
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          Ho riprodotto le tabelle presenti nella documentazione. Di seguito il codice compilabile. Niente, quel simbolo non lo vedo proprio. 🙁
          `\documentclass[a4paper]{article}

          \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
          \usepackage[big]{layaureo}
          \usepackage{hieroglf}

          \begin{document}

          \Huge

          \begin{table}
          \centering
          \caption{Commands and encoding for the signs A—N}\label{tab:basic1}
          \begin{tabular}{lclcp{0.35\textwidth}} \hline
          Glyph & ASCII & Command & Command & Comment \\ \hline
          A1 & & \textpmhg{\HAi} & \textpmhg{\Hman} & kneeling man pointing (man) \\
          A2 & I & \textpmhg{\HAii} & \textpmhg{\HI} & man pointing at mouth (eat, drink, speak) \\
          A28 & Y & \textpmhg{\HAxxviii} & \textpmhg{\HY} & man with upraised arms (joy) \\
          %C11 & 7 & \textpmhg{\HCxxi} & \textpmhg{\Hmillion} & kneeling man with upraised arms (hh, numeral 1,000,000) \\
          D1 & Q & \textpmhg{\HDi} & \textpmhg{\HQ} & profile of head (tp) \\
          D2 & q & \textpmhg{\HDii} & \textpmhg{\Hq} & full face (hr) \\
          D4 & e & \textpmhg{\HDiv} & \textpmhg{\He} & an eye (ir) \\
          D21 & r & \textpmhg{\HDxxi} & \textpmhg{\Hr} & pointy ellipse (mouth, r) \\
          D36 & A & \textpmhg{\HDxxxvi} & \textpmhg{\HA} & elbow, forearm and hand (the semitic gutteral ayin) \\
          D46 & d & \textpmhg{\HDxlvi} & \textpmhg{\Hd} & hand in a mitt (d) \\
          D47 & P & \textpmhg{\HDxlvii} & \textpmhg{\HP} & curved hand in mitt (palm of hand) \\
          D50 & 5 & \textpmhg{\HDl} & \textpmhg{\HXthousand} & ship's ventilator (db, numeral 10,000) \\
          D54 & L & \textpmhg{\HDliv} & \textpmhg{\HL} & legs walking left (walk, run, come, ir) \\
          D58 & b & \textpmhg{\HDlviii} & \textpmhg{\Hb} & lower leg and foot (b) \\
          E23 & l & \textpmhg{\HExxiii} & \textpmhg{\Hl} & lion lying down (l) \\
          F1 & X & \textpmhg{\HFi} & \textpmhg{\HX} & ox head \\
          F20 & & \textpmhg{\HFxx} & \textpmhg{\Htongue} & tongue (ns) \\
          F31 & & \textpmhg{\HFxxxi} & \textpmhg{\Hms} & three brambles hanging down (ms) \\
          F34 & G & \textpmhg{\HFxxxiv} & \textpmhg{\HG} & vase with stopper (heart, ib) \\
          F40 & Z & \textpmhg{\HFxl} & \textpmhg{\HZ} & like a zylophone (Aw) \\
          G1 & a & \textpmhg{\HGi} & \textpmhg{\Ha} & Egyptian vulture (glottal stop) \\
          G17 & m & \textpmhg{\HGxvii} & \textpmhg{\Hm} & owl (m) \\
          G26 & & \textpmhg{\HGxxvi} & \textpmhg{\Hibp} & sacred ibis on a post (dhwty) \\
          G26* & & \textpmhg{\HGxxvis} & \textpmhg{\Hibw} & ibis (jabiru?) walking (b) \\
          G27 & & \textpmhg{\HGxxvii} & \textpmhg{\Hibs} & short-necked ibis pecking \\
          G28 & & \textpmhg{\HGxxviii} & \textpmhg{\Hibl} & long-necked black ibis pecking (gm) \\
          G36 & R & \textpmhg{\HGxxxvi} & \textpmhg{\HR} & a swallow (wr) \\
          G43 & w & \textpmhg{\HGxliii} & \textpmhg{\Hw} & a quail chick (w) \\
          H8 & O & \textpmhg{\HHviii} & \textpmhg{\HO} & egg \\
          I8 & 6 & \textpmhg{\HIviii} & \textpmhg{\HCthousand} & mongoose? (hfnw, numeral 100,000) \\
          I9 & f & \textpmhg{\HIix} & \textpmhg{\Hf} & horned viper (f) \\
          I10 & D & \textpmhg{\HIx} & \textpmhg{\HD} & cobra with dropped tail (a dj sound) \\
          K1 & F & \textpmhg{\HKi} & \textpmhg{\HF} & fish with large dorsal fin (in) \\
          M3 & N & \textpmhg{\HMiii} & \textpmhg{\HN} & tree branch (wood, tree, Ht) \\
          M8 & E & \textpmhg{\HMviii} & \textpmhg{\HE} & lotus pool (SA) \\
          M12 & 4 & \textpmhg{\HMxii} & \textpmhg{\Hthousand} & lotus (h3, numeral 1,000) \\
          M17 & i & \textpmhg{\HMxvii} & \textpmhg{\Hi} & a machette (i) \\
          N29 & K & \textpmhg{\HNxxix} & \textpmhg{\HK} & triangle with wavy hypotenuse (q) \\
          N35 & n & \textpmhg{\HNxxxv} & \textpmhg{\Hn} & zigzag line (n) \\
          N37 & z & \textpmhg{\HNxxxvii} & \textpmhg{\Hz} & rectangle (stone, sh) \\
          \hline
          \end{tabular}
          \end{table}

          \clearpage

          \begin{table}
          \centering
          \caption{Commands and encoding for the signs O—PW}\label{tab:basic2}
          \begin{tabular}{lclcp{0.35\textwidth}} \hline
          Glyph & ASCII & Command & Command & Comment \\ \hline
          O1 & j & \textpmhg{Oi} & \textpmhg{\Hj} & single doored house floorplan (house, pr) \\
          O4 & h & \textpmhg{Oiv} & \textpmhg{\Hh} & square spiral (h) \\
          O34 & S & \textpmhg{Oxliv} & \textpmhg{\HS} & horizontal line with 2 blobs (z or s) \\
          Q3 & p & \textpmhg{Qiii} & \textpmhg{\Hp} & a square (p) \\
          R7 & B & \textpmhg{Rvii} & \textpmhg{\HB} & pestle and mortar (b) \\
          S12 & v & \textpmhg{Sxii} & \textpmhg{\Hv} & a gold collar (nbw) \\
          S29 & s & \textpmhg{Sxxix} & \textpmhg{\Hs} & long umbrella handle (s) \\
          S39 & ? & \textpmhg{Sxxxix} & \textpmhg{\Hquery} & shepherd's crook (awt) \\
          S41 & c & \textpmhg{Sxli} & \textpmhg{\Hc} & hanging twisted string (dm) \\
          T3 & u & \textpmhg{Tiii} & \textpmhg{\Hu} & upright with a knob at top (HD) \\
          T14 & / & \textpmhg{Txiv} & \textpmhg{\Hslash} & throw stick, boomerang (qma) \\
          U36 & J & \textpmhg{Uxxxvi} & \textpmhg{\HJ} & upright cudgel (Hm) \\
          V1 & 3 & \textpmhg{Vi} & \textpmhg{\Hhundred} & coil of rope (st, numeral 100) \\
          V4 & o & \textpmhg{Viv} & \textpmhg{\Ho} & lassoo (wA) \\
          V13 & T & \textpmhg{Vxiii} & \textpmhg{\HT} & pair of sugar tongs (tj, T) \\
          V20 & 2 & \textpmhg{Vxx} & \textpmhg{\Hten} & cattle hobble (mdw, numeral 10) \\
          V24 & U & \textpmhg{Vxxiv} & \textpmhg{\HU} & vertical line with centre oval (wD) \\
          V28 & H & \textpmhg{Vxxviii} & \textpmhg{\HH} & twisted flax (an emphatic h) \\
          V31 & k & \textpmhg{Vxxxi} & \textpmhg{\Hk} & bowl with handle (k) \\
          W11 & g & \textpmhg{Wxi} & \textpmhg{\Hg} & chockstone of a stone arch with triangular crest (g) \\
          X1 & t & \textpmhg{Xi} & \textpmhg{\Ht} & upper semicircle (t) \\
          Y1v & V & \textpmhg{YiV} & \textpmhg{\HV} & rectangle with W (book, writing, abstract) \\
          Y4 & & \textpmhg{Yiv} & \textpmhg{\Hscribe} & scribe (sh) \\
          Z2 & & \textpmhg{Zii} & \textpmhg{\Hplural} & 3 short vertical lines (plural) \\
          Z4 & & \textpmhg{Ziv} & \textpmhg{\Hdual} & 2 short sloping lines (dual, pair) \\
          Z6 & & \textpmhg{Zvi} & \textpmhg{\Hsv} & stick with a V at righthand end \\
          Z7 & W & \textpmhg{Zvii} & \textpmhg{\HW} & curved spiral (W) \\
          Z11 & + & \textpmhg{Zxi} & \textpmhg{\Hplus} & crossed planks (imi, wnm) \\
          Aa1 & C & \textpmhg{Aai} & \textpmhg{\HC} & shaded circle (ch as in loch, x) \\
          Aa12 & M & \textpmhg{Aaxii} & \textpmhg{\HM} & parallel lines joined at left (M) \\
          PW1 & x & \textpmhg{PWi} & \textpmhg{\Hx} & notched rectangle (door) \\
          PW2 & y & \textpmhg{PWii} & \textpmhg{\Hy} & a pair of machettes (y) \\
          \hline
          \end{tabular}
          \end{table}

          \begin{table}
          \centering
          \caption{Coded coding} \label{tab:coded}
          \begin{tabular}{|l|c||l|c||l|c|} \hline
          \verb|\HAii| (A2) & \textpmhg{\HAii} & \verb|\HNxxix| (N31) & \textpmhg{\HNxxix} & \verb|\HAai| (Aa1) & \textpmhg{\HAai} \\
          \verb|\HAxxviii| (A28) & \textpmhg{\HAxxviii} & \verb|\HNxxxv| (N35) & \textpmhg{\HNxxxv} & \verb|\HAaxii| (Aa12) & \textpmhg{\HAaxii} \\
          \verb|\HDi| (D1) & \textpmhg{\HDi} & \verb|\HNxxxvii| (N37) & \textpmhg{\HNxxxvii} & \verb|\HPWi| (PW1) & \textpmhg{\HPWi} \\
          \verb|\HDii| (D2) & \textpmhg{\HDii} & \verb|\HOi| (O1) & \textpmhg{\HOi} & \verb|\HPWii| (PW2) & \textpmhg{\HPWii} \\
          \verb|\HDiv| (D4) & \textpmhg{\HDiv} & \verb|\HOiv| (O4) & \textpmhg{\HOiv} & \verb|\HFxxxi| (F31) & \textpmhg{\HFxxxi} \\
          \verb|\HDxxi| (D21) & \textpmhg{\HDxxi} & \verb|\HOxxxiv| (O34) & \textpmhg{\HOxxxiv} & \verb|\HGxxvi| (G26) & \textpmhg{\HGxxvi} \\
          \verb|\HDxxxvi| (D36) & \textpmhg{\HDxxxvi} & \verb|\HQiii| (Q3) & \textpmhg{\HQiii} & \verb|\HGxxvis| (G26*) & \textpmhg{\HGxxvis} \\
          \verb|\HDxlvi| (D46) & \textpmhg{\HDxlvi} & \verb|\HRvii| (R7) & \textpmhg{\HRvii} & \verb|\HGxxvii| (G27) & \textpmhg{\HGxxvii} \\
          \verb|\HDxlvii| (D47) & \textpmhg{\HDxlvii} & \verb|\HSxii| (S12) & \textpmhg{\HSxii} & \verb|\HGxxviii| (G28) & \textpmhg{\HGxxviii} \\
          \verb|\HDliv| (D54) & \textpmhg{\HDliv} & \verb|\HSxxix| (S29) & \textpmhg{\HSxxix} & \verb|\HZvi| (Z6) & \textpmhg{\HZvi} \\
          \verb|\HDlviii| (D58) & \textpmhg{\HDlviii} & \verb|\HSxxxix| (S39) & \textpmhg{\HSxxxix} & \verb|\HAi| (A1) & \textpmhg{\HAi} \\
          \verb|\HExxiii| (E23) & \textpmhg{\HExxiii} & \verb|\HSxli| (S41) & \textpmhg{\HSxli} & \verb|\HFxx| (F20) & \textpmhg{\HFxx} \\
          \verb|\HFi| (F1) & \textpmhg{\HFi} & \verb|\HTiii| (T3) & \textpmhg{\HTiii} & \verb|\HYiv| (Y4) & \textpmhg{\HYiv} \\
          \verb|\HFxxxiv| (F34) & \textpmhg{\HFxxxiv} & \verb|\HTxiv| (T14) & \textpmhg{\HTxiv} & \verb|\HZii| (Z2) & \textpmhg{\HZii} \\
          \verb|\HFxl| (F40) & \textpmhg{\HFxl} & \verb|\HUxxxvi| (U36) & \textpmhg{\HUxxxvi} & \verb|\HZiv| (Z4) & \textpmhg{\HZiv} \\
          \verb|\HGi| (G1) & \textpmhg{\HGi} & \verb|\HViv| (V4) & \textpmhg{\HViv} & \verb|\HCxi| (C11) & \textpmhg{\HCxi} \\
          \verb|\HGxvii| (G17) & \textpmhg{\HGxvii} & \verb|\HVxiii| (V13) & \textpmhg{\HVxiii} & \verb|\HDl| (D50) & \textpmhg{\HDl} \\
          \verb|\HGxxxvi| (G36) & \textpmhg{\HGxxxvi} & \verb|\HVxxiv| (V24) & \textpmhg{\HVxxiv} & \verb|\HIviii| (I8) & \textpmhg{\HIviii} \\
          \verb|\HGxliii| (G43) & \textpmhg{\HGxliii} & \verb|\HVxxviii| (V28) & \textpmhg{\HVxxviii} & \verb|\HMxii| (M12) & \textpmhg{\HMxii} \\
          \verb|\HHviii| (H8) & \textpmhg{\HHviii} & \verb|\HVxxxi| (V31) & \textpmhg{\HVxxxi} & \verb|\HVi| (V1) & \textpmhg{\HVi} \\
          \verb|\HIix| (I9) & \textpmhg{\HIix} & \verb|\HWxi| (W11) & \textpmhg{\HWxi} & \verb|\HVxx| (V20) & \textpmhg{\HVxx} \\
          \verb|\HIx| (I10) & \textpmhg{\HIx} & \verb|\HXi| (X1) & \textpmhg{\HXi} & & \\
          \verb|\HKi| (K1) & \textpmhg{\HKi} & \verb|\HYiV| (Y1v) & \textpmhg{\HYiV} & & \\
          \verb|\HMiii| (M3) & \textpmhg{\HMiii} & \verb|\HZi| (Z1) & \textpmhg{\HZi} & & \\
          \verb|\HMviii| (M8) & \textpmhg{\HMviii} & \verb|\HZvii| (Z7) & \textpmhg{\HZvii} & & \\
          \verb|\HMxvii| (M17) & \textpmhg{\HMxvii} & \verb|\HZxi| (Z11) & \textpmhg{\HZxi} & & \\
          \hline
          \end{tabular}
          \end{table}

          \begin{table}
          \centering
          \caption{Alphabetic coding} \label{tab:alpha}
          \begin{tabular}{|cl|c|l||cl|c|l||cl|c|l|} \hline
          A & \verb|\HA| & \textpmhg{A} & {HA} & a & \verb|\Ha| & \textpmhg{a} & {Ha}
          & + & \verb|\Hplus| & \textpmhg{+} & {Hplus} \\
          B & \verb|\HB| & \textpmhg{B} & {HB} & b & \verb|\Hb| & \textpmhg{b} & {Hb}
          & ? & \verb|\Hquery| & \textpmhg{?} & {Hquery} \\
          C & \verb|\HC| & \textpmhg{C} & {HC} & c & \verb|\Hc| & \textpmhg{c} & {Hc}
          & / & \verb|\Hslash| & \textpmhg{/} & {Hslash} \\
          D & \verb|\HD| & \textpmhg{D} & {HD} & d & \verb|\Hd| & \textpmhg{d} & {Hd}
          & \verb?|? & \verb|\Hvbar| & \textpmhg{|} & {Hvbar} \\
          E & \verb|\HE| & \textpmhg{E} & {HE} & e & \verb|\He| & \textpmhg{e} & {He}
          & & \verb|\Hms| & \textpmhg{\Hms} & {Hms} \\
          F & \verb|\HF| & \textpmhg{F} & {HF} & f & \verb|\Hf| & \textpmhg{f} & {Hf}
          & & \verb|\Hibp| & \textpmhg{\Hibp} & {Hibp} \\
          G & \verb|\HG| & \textpmhg{G} & {HG} & g & \verb|\Hg| & \textpmhg{g} & {Hg}
          & & \verb|\Hibw| & \textpmhg{\Hibw} & {Hibw} \\
          H & \verb|\HH| & \textpmhg{H} & {HH} & h & \verb|\Hh| & \textpmhg{h} & {Hh}
          & & \verb|\Hibs| & \textpmhg{\Hibs} & {Hibs} \\
          I & \verb|\HI| & \textpmhg{I} & {HI} & i & \verb|\Hi| & \textpmhg{i} & {Hi}
          & & \verb|\Hibl| & \textpmhg{\Hibl} & {Hibl} \\
          J & \verb|\HJ| & \textpmhg{J} & {HJ} & j & \verb|\Hj| & \textpmhg{j} & {Hj}
          & & \verb|\Hsv| & \textpmhg{\Hsv} & {Hsv} \\
          K & \verb|\HK| & \textpmhg{K} & {HK} & k & \verb|\Hk| & \textpmhg{k} & {Hk}
          & & \verb|\Hman| & \textpmhg{\Hman} & {Hman} \\
          L & \verb|\HL| & \textpmhg{L} & {HL} & l & \verb|\Hl| & \textpmhg{l} & {Hl}
          & & \verb|\Htongue| & \textpmhg{\Htongue} & {Htongue} \\
          M & \verb|\HM| & \textpmhg{M} & {HM} & m & \verb|\Hm| & \textpmhg{m} & {Hm}
          & & \verb|\Hscribe| & \textpmhg{\Hscribe} & {Hscribe} \\
          N & \verb|\HN| & \textpmhg{N} & {HN} & n & \verb|\Hn| & \textpmhg{n} & {Hn}
          & & \verb|\Hplural| & \textpmhg{\Hplural} & {Hplural} \\
          O & \verb|\HO| & \textpmhg{O} & {HO} & o & \verb|\Ho| & \textpmhg{o} & {Ho}
          & & \verb|\Hdual| & \textpmhg{\Hdual} & {Hdual} \\
          P & \verb|\HP| & \textpmhg{P} & {HP} & p & \verb|\Hp| & \textpmhg{p} & {Hp}
          & \verb?|? & \verb|\Hone| & \textpmhg{|} & {Hone} \\
          Q & \verb|\HQ| & \textpmhg{Q} & {HQ} & q & \verb|\Hq| & \textpmhg{q} & {Hq}
          & 2 & \verb|\Hten| & \textpmhg{2} & {Hten} \\
          R & \verb|\HR| & \textpmhg{R} & {HR} & r & \verb|\Hr| & \textpmhg{r} & {Hr}
          & 3 & \verb|\Hhundred| & \textpmhg{3} & {Hhundred} \\
          S & \verb|\HS| & \textpmhg{S} & {HS} & s & \verb|\Hs| & \textpmhg{s} & {Hs}
          & 4 & \verb|\Hthousand| & \textpmhg{4} & {Hthousand} \\
          T & \verb|\HT| & \textpmhg{T} & {HT} & t & \verb|\Ht| & \textpmhg{t} & {Ht}
          & 5 & \verb|\HXthousand| & \textpmhg{5} & {HXthousand} \\
          U & \verb|\HU| & \textpmhg{U} & {HU} & u & \verb|\Hu| & \textpmhg{u} & {Hu}
          & 6 & \verb|\HCthousand| & \textpmhg{6} & {HCthousand} \\
          V & \verb|\HV| & \textpmhg{V} & {HV} & v & \verb|\Hv| & \textpmhg{v} & {Hv}
          & 7 & \verb|\Hmillion| & \textpmhg{7} & {Hmillion} \\
          W & \verb|\HW| & \textpmhg{W} & {HW} & w & \verb|\Hw| & \textpmhg{w} & {Hw} & & & & \\
          X & \verb|\HX| & \textpmhg{X} & {HX} & x & \verb|\Hx| & \textpmhg{x} & {Hx} & & & & \\
          Y & \verb|\HY| & \textpmhg{Y} & {HY} & y & \verb|\Hy| & \textpmhg{y} & {Hy} & & & & \\
          Z & \verb|\HZ| & \textpmhg{Z} & {HZ} & z & \verb|\Hz| & \textpmhg{z} & {Hz} & & & & \\
          \hline
          \end{tabular}
          \end{table}

          \end{document}`

        • #109348
          lorenzo.pantieri
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            Ecco il dannato simbolo:

            http://www.lorenzopantieri.net/LaTeX_files/ventrecoda.pdf

            A questo punto mi va bene anche una soluzione “spiccia e sporca” per inserirlo. Messo come sono ora, non mi resta che includerlo come immagine. 🙁

          • #109349
            lorenzo.pantieri
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              Per me le cose stanno così.

              Il pacchetto hieroglf, di Peter Wilson, è una riduzione del pacchetto HieroTeX di Serge Rosmorduc. Quest’ultimo non è di facile uso, perché richiede l’installazione di font ad hoc, mentre hieroglf è di uso immediato.

              Wilson, però, non ha messo nel suo pacchetto il simbolo F32, ma per me ha sbagliato, visto che è fondamentale: i geroglifici sono circa settemila, d’accordo, ma quel carattere è uno dei 24 principali (i simboli cui corrisponde un solo suono).

            • #109350
              claudio
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                ciao guarda qui
                claudio

              • #109351
                lorenzo.pantieri
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                  claudio” post=109533ciao guarda qui
                  claudio

                  Peccato.

                  Quanto al pacchetto hieroglf, l’autore stesso dice che non ha grosse pretese. Per una tesi in egittologia è inadeguato, ma per un uso elementare va benissimo… con l’eccezione di quel simbolo mancante. Si tratta di una lacuna non da poco, anche per un pacchetto senza grosse pretese.

                  Appena ho un secondoi scrivo due righe all’autore chiedendogli di aggiungerlo.

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